2 Timothy 2:8-13
2:8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, a descendant of David; such is my gospel, 2:9 for which I suffer hardship to the point of imprisonment as a criminal, but God’s message is not imprisoned! 2:10 So I endure all things for the sake of those chosen by God, that they too may obtain salvation in Christ Jesus and its eternal glory. 2:11 This saying is trustworthy:
If we died with him, we will also live with him.
2:12 If we endure, we will also reign with him.
If we deny him, he will also deny us.
2:13 If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, since he cannot deny himself.
Notes:
1. Paul’s gospel is Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, a descendent of David. In other words, Jesus Christ, the Messiah, who was raised from the dead. Paul’s gospel was Jesus, solely Jesus. Sometimes it’s so easy to throw so many other things in our message about Christ, and we forget to just preach Christ, crucified and raised from the dead. In 1 Corinthians 2:2 Paul states “For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.” That should be our resolution and our plan when around non-believers, to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified. It’s all about Jesus.
2. Paul suffered for that gospel, he was imprisoned, he was beaten. But, his joy was in the fact that God’s word was not chained! He rejoiced in the knowledge that God’s word cannot be held back, it will break through. So, because of that, he endured all the things that had been done to him, for the sake of the chosen, that they may obtain salvation. Side note, Paul endured so that God would, through him, save “the elect”, or the chosen... and his wording implies that their obtaining salvation was in some way dependent on him spreading the message. This gives further credence to an earlier note of mine that I believe the election of God is a people, him choosing a people for himself and not necessarily choosing certain individuals over others. That said, God knows all things, the future included, so He knows the ones who will accept him, and thus can “choose” them, being the God who knows the future, and the God who searches the hearts of man.
3. If we died with Him, we will live with Him. If we endure, we will reign with Him. If we deny Him, He will deny us. If we are unfaithful, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. - This is a beautiful and tough section of scripture, there is hope, and there is warning. Hope that if we follow, Christ, 1st there is life after death, 2nd, if we endure, we will reign with Him, we will be rewarded. A warning that if we deny Christ, He will deny us. Does this deny mean momentarily becoming afraid of your circumstances and denying that you know Him as Peter did? I don’t think so, because Christ did not deny peter, obviously. What does this mean then? I believe that this refers to a full and final denial of Christ’s rule over your heart. If we, after knowing Him, deny him outright, turn our backs on Him fully, and renounce our faith and relationship with him fully, He will deny us. That’s hard to get around... especially when we’ve been raised to believe “once saved always saved”. OK, now some of you are going to lose me here, and put up your blinders, because you’re thinking, “oh great, here’s another guy telling me I have to live a certain way or I will lose my salvation...” WAIT! NO! That’s not what I’m saying at all. The next verse after this one completely refutes that line of thought... I am not saying that you can LOSE your salvation. I’m saying that if we CHOOSE, in the end, finally and fully to renounce our life in Christ, and deny him his reign over our hearts, and say “I’m not going to follow or believe in You”, He will deny us. It is the only unforgivable sin, it is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Not losing your salvation. You cannot lose your salvation, as if it was a hat you were carrying around and left somewhere. No, salvation is a FREE gift that we do not need to hold on to, it holds on to us. But, we can choose to deny Christ, and give up our salvation willingly. We can tell Christ that we no longer want anything to do with Him, and deny His Spirit life in our hearts. That is denying him. OK, no past the hard stuff, to the good stuff! “If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, since he cannot deny himself.” This is such a beautiful promise! If we get lost along the way, if we take a wrong turn, if we get wrapped up in sin, if we commit spiritual adultery, if we don’t have faith, GOD REMAINS FAITHFUL! He holds on to us, he always takes us back, He always forgives, He always remains faithful. God is a shepherd, He will seek us out and find us, He will, by all means necessary bring us back to Him. This is why you cannot lose your salvation, our salvation is not a matter of works, but grace. It is God’s grace that holds us, that draws us, that saves us. You cannot backslide far enough to get away from God, He is always there. He will always rescue you, if you let Him. What a great reassurance. Oh how He loves us! He is jealous for us, and will pursue us! What a wonderful, loving father.
Study Prayer:
Oh, Lord, thank you for your love for us! That you that you always take us back, and that you always pursue us. Thank you for loving us like a father and sacrificing your son so that we may live. Thank you for remaining faithful when we stray from you Lord. Father help us to live in a manner that reflects Christ and Him crucified. Let us remember that in all our dealings with non-believers, and act accordingly. Let us not muddy the waters with doctrines of men or religious styles or teachings of works. Let us resolve to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified, so that we may live. In Jesus’ name, amen.
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Nate, thanks for your thoughts on 2 Timothy 2:8-13. This is a wonderful section of Scripture! However, I have two concerns about some of your comments.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, in your side note under section 2 you explained that God's election was based on him knowing the future and knowing "the ones who will accept him" and that he then elects them based on their faith. This is a common misconception of the teaching of election, and it is incorrect in light of what God also says in Ephesians 2:8-9. To paraphrase, Paul says there that "Salvation is by God's grace alone which we receive through our faith, and this is not from us or what we do, but is simply a gift of God. It is not by works, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST." You see, if God elected people based on THEIR belief in him, that would make them partners with God in their salvation - effectively tainting the idea of being saved by God alone with work righteousness, the idea that we need to do something to be saved.
In fact, the doctrine of election is a mystery to humans who cannot fathom the concept of God choosing his elect from before the creation of the world - before they even existed. This is why false teachings such as double predestination (which states that God chooses some to be saved AND some to be damned) have come into being - election is a hard teaching, and one that we cannot fully wrap our minds around in this life!
However, the purpose of the doctrine of election is to give us comfort: God promises that his elect will be with him in heaven. If we have faith, we are among the elect, and nothing can rip us out of his loving hands. Amen!
The other suggestion I would make is to be careful with your use of the words 'never' and 'always' towards the end of section 3. While there is no sin that God can't forgive a repentant sinner for, we ought not to have the false comfort that it doesn't matter what we do because God will always forgive us. Salvation CAN be lost if we reject the Gospel message of salvation. When it is said that someone has "lost their faith", or "lost salvation", I don't think the word 'lost' is used in the sense of losing a hat. I think it is simply a picture of having something and then NOT having it.
Faith isn't TAKEN from us, it's pushed away BY us. This is why it's so important for Christians to nurture their faith through Bible study, worship, and prayer. This is why it's so important for Christians to avoid sinful thoughts and actions - those things can lead to a loss of faith by smothering it with sin. A fire will only burn for so long without being tended; eventually its fuel is used up and it dies. So can faith. When it is dead, it is lost unless the Holy Spirit, through God's Word, creates that faith again.
Again, so long as we have Spirit-given faith and we nurture it to keep it strong, we can be sure that we are among God's elect and will live with him in heaven one day!
Very confusing blog at times. You make this comment:
ReplyDelete"OK, now some of you are going to lose me here, and put up your blinders, because you’re thinking, “oh great, here’s another guy telling me I have to live a certain way or I will lose my salvation...” WAIT! NO! That’s not what I’m saying at all. The next verse after this one completely refutes that line of thought... I am not saying that you can LOSE your salvation."
Here you are claiming that verse 13 of that verse is refuting the idea that one can lose his salvation but then you go on to say that verse 12 is teaching that you can lose your salvation as one can willingly walk away from salvation. You contradict yourself.
You also have made "denying Him" as the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and you have read the gospels into this verse here in 2nd Timothy. It is a dangerous thing to simply read your interpretation into a passage. I have an entirely different view of what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is but clearly the Holy Spirit is not in view here as Paul is dealing with the millennial reign of Christ. Paul never says, "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" here nor that the sin is unpardonable. You might cause some innocent true believer to stumble by what you "think" a verse teaches.
You stated:
"You cannot lose your salvation, as if it was a hat you were carrying around and left somewhere. No, salvation is a FREE gift that we do not need to hold on to, it holds on to us."
OK, if we do not need to hold onto salvation and that it has a hold on us then how can we walk away from something that you go on to say that holds us and not vice versa? Can you walk away from a hat that has a hold on you? Clearly you believe that you can throw that hat away.
You correctly stated that:
"2nd, if we endure, we will reign with Him, we will be rewarded."
Enduring has to do with our works. Our works is what gets rewarded. Grace and works are mutually exclusive. You can mix grace and works about as good as trying to mix water with oil as it cannot be done. Reigning has to do with the reward and not salvation unless one wants to believe that salvation is by works.
Paul makes it abundantly clear that if you meet the first condition of dying with Christ then you SHALL live with Him. That is done apart from works. The next part has to do with believers now in their walk. Endure and reign or deny Him and be denied reigning in the millennial kingdom that is to come. Verse 13 simply states that if we are faithless then Christ will remain faithful as He cannot deny Himself. You seem to have added that Christ will take us back but the verses NEVER say that. Only read what you see in the verse and do not add your feelings or opinions like those that preach Lordship Salvation. Christ will always remain faithful to us that do not. You cannot walk away from salvation because if you are saved then your life is hid in Christ. Christ is our life so walking away from salvation is not taught.
I felt that you talked out of both sides of your mouth and I am not saying that disrespectfully. You said:
"This is why you cannot lose your salvation, our salvation is not a matter of works, but grace."
Then you say elsewhere:
"But, we can choose to deny Christ, and give up our salvation willingly."
Either you can lose it or you can't. You say "can't" but argue elsewhere "can"???????????
Don't throw out blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, loss of salvation and so on when the passage doesn't. Don't fall for the trap of redefining things as you see fit. You gave your description of what "deny him" means without even knowing what Paul meant by it. You define blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as denying Christ and NOT ONCE did Christ define blasphemy of the Holy Spirit that way nor does Paul.
Ryan, Great thoughts, thanks for sharing them with us!
ReplyDeleteI fully agree that salvation can be pushed away by us, and I think you very accurately described how that can happen. I think our only differences on that subject would be semantics, I would say you can't lose your salvation in the sense that oops, you screwed up, now you're not saved for today. That would be my definition of lost, I believe you can walk away from your relationship with Christ, I have personally known people, strong believers, mind you, who have done just that.
As far as election goes, I don't really want to get into that debate with you, there is too much there, and it usually only ends in bitterness and hurt feelings between brothers and sisters when we argue over that. But I will agree with you, election is a mystery that none of us can fully understand, much like that of the trinity.
Anonymous, thanks for your post, and sorry if I have confused you. Again, semantics seem to be the culprit here.
I fully believe that as a believer in Christ, you can choose to walk away from God, and thus "lose" your salvation. That does not mean you can lose your salvation by committing a sin, or that you need to be re-saved regularly... that would be teaching that you are saved by works.
I do not believe that you are saved by works, but by grace, but being saved by grace does not mean that you cannot choose to walk away from that grace.
Here are a few scriptures that point to this fact:
(1 Corinthians 15:2 NIV) By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
(Hebrews 6:4-6 NIV) It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [5] who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, [6] if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
(Luke 12:42-46 NIV) The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? [43] It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. [44] I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. [45] But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. [46] The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
Isn't the servant here a Christian? Isn't the master, Jesus Christ? Isn't the place with the unbelievers hell?
(Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV) If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, [27] but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Again this was written to Christians.
(Romans 11:17-21 NIV) If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, [18] do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. [19] You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." [20] Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. [21] For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
To be grafted in one must be a believer and if a graphed in branch is a believer then it clearly says they can be broken off again. It clearly says they were broken off because of unbelief and that we will not be spared either.
(John 15:1-6 NIV) "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. [2] He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. [3] You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. [4] Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. [5] "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. [6] If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
If Jesus is the vine and we are the branches and we do not remain in Him we become like a branch thrown away and burned in the fire, what could that mean? I believe you have to twist this passage to show anything but judgment for those believers who reject their faith. To me this passage debunks the theology of carnal Christianity. If a believer is living a carnal life the Father will cut them off from the vine which is Jesus Christ. I didn't say that Jesus did.
(Hebrews 3:12-14 NIV) See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. [13] But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. [14] We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.
I think this passage pretty much speaks for itself. We must hold firmly till the end. The author also states that it is possible for someone to turn away.
(2 Peter 2:20-21 NIV) If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. [21] It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
When you look at this verse you have three choices; (1) That it refers to people who heard the gospel but rejected it, did not ever accept Jesus Christ as their savior. I think that is wrong, because it says if they are "again" entangled. To be entangled again, would mean you were free from it at one point. (2) That these people are true Christians and never fall back under judgment. I don't see how that can be true, since there is no way that losing rewards or even chastisement by the Lord would ever be "worse" then not having been saved in the first place. (3) That this refers to people who have truly accepted Christ Jesus as their Savior and then due to their own actions and falling back into a sinful life and thereby eventually totally walking away from their faith are lost. Since those who go to hell will be judged on what they knew and what they did with that knowledge, it would be better if they had never known because their punishment will be much harsher due to the knowledge they had. I think number 3 is the only legitimate interpretation of this passage.
(some of the above comments referenced from: http://www.behindthebadge.net/osas/
He has some great material and debates on this page that discuss the doctrine of eternal security and "once saved-always saved")
Thanks to both of you for sharing your thoughts and concerns with me, I do hope you'll read some of my material not just looking for what I am saying wrong, but with open hearts, hearing what the Spirit might speak to you.
Love and blessings,
Nate